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	<title>Comments on: San Fransocial</title>
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	<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/</link>
	<description>This can all be made better. Ready? Begin.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: philopers</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-20448</link>
		<dc:creator>philopers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-20448</guid>
		<description>Another really nice, great and original comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another really nice, great and original comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Breyten&#8217;s Dev Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2005-12-09</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-2856</link>
		<dc:creator>Breyten&#8217;s Dev Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2005-12-09</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-2856</guid>
		<description>[...] San Fransocial at FactoryCity &#8220;nstead of the old chat, look at each other in the eye, sip, drink, speak, listen, respond and on and on, you have these myriad verbal, non-verbal and digital communication methods happening simultaneously, spontaneously and asynchronously. &#8220; (tags: social funny sanfransocial) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] San Fransocial at FactoryCity &#8220;nstead of the old chat, look at each other in the eye, sip, drink, speak, listen, respond and on and on, you have these myriad verbal, non-verbal and digital communication methods happening simultaneously, spontaneously and asynchronously. &#8220; (tags: social funny sanfransocial) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Flockstars  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Flockstar Spotlight: Tara Hunt</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-1920</link>
		<dc:creator>Flockstars  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Flockstar Spotlight: Tara Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-1920</guid>
		<description>[...] ogue/44397036" title="Photo Sharing"&#62; 	Flockstar Spotlight: Tara Hunt  	Tara Hunt is a San Fran Socialite who has been using Flock since the beginning. She is involved in many We [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ogue/44397036&#8243; title=&#8221;Photo Sharing&#8221;&gt; 	Flockstar Spotlight: Tara Hunt  	Tara Hunt is a San Fran Socialite who has been using Flock since the beginning. She is involved in many We [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Build me a distributed LazyWeb!   at  FactoryCity</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-1866</link>
		<dc:creator>Build me a distributed LazyWeb!   at  FactoryCity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2006 03:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-1866</guid>
		<description>[...] ,  Open source. 													Tags: No Tags.											 				 	 				 												So I'm San Fransocializing with Tantek and Greg Elin, shootin' the breeze and considering how we c [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ,  Open source.<br />
 													Tags: No Tags.											</p>
<p> 												So I&#8217;m San Fransocializing with Tantek and Greg Elin, shootin&#8217; the breeze and considering how we c [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Out of Towner Meetup   at  FactoryCity</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-1314</link>
		<dc:creator>The Out of Towner Meetup   at  FactoryCity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 02:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-1314</guid>
		<description>[...] et2 event is over, we'll mosey on over to Medjool for drinks, food and general tomfoolery. San Fransocializing will likely occur, but that's up to the individual attendees.  	Anyway, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] et2 event is over, we&#8217;ll mosey on over to Medjool for drinks, food and general tomfoolery. San Fransocializing will likely occur, but that&#8217;s up to the individual attendees.  	Anyway, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: vanderwal</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-1301</link>
		<dc:creator>vanderwal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-1301</guid>
		<description>I am not sure this is a San Francisco thing as much as it is our culture.  I have been traveling a lot this past year.  I see this pattern an aweful lot.  I also saw it in the mid-90s when laptops became laptops.  I see more people in Europe using their mobile in this multi-social capacity than laptops.  

When I am traveling I often have my laptop with me, but when I am near home I most often an out with a much smaller device (Treo).  My laptop is my portable office, but my Treo is my personal communication device. Increasingly, there are many occasions where I have both. As I am moving back into serious project work, my laptop is increasingly with me (but it is also my desktop - for now).

The rudeness I think correlates to whom we are interacting.  If it is geek, the laptops are out and mobiles clicking.  If it is not geek, I am less inclined to do so.  But, I will pop out the laptop or mobile for a quick demo or to show an example. I also will pull out graph paper and illustrate.

This last trip in England I had meetings where my laptop stayed tucked away while discussing business, but also had social occasions where I found the bar had wifi and all the laptops popped out while we chatted multi-socially and drank beers.  I also had business meetings where all the parties had their laptops out taking notes (to ensure everything was captured) and quick references could be checked, even with no connectivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure this is a San Francisco thing as much as it is our culture.  I have been traveling a lot this past year.  I see this pattern an aweful lot.  I also saw it in the mid-90s when laptops became laptops.  I see more people in Europe using their mobile in this multi-social capacity than laptops.  </p>
<p>When I am traveling I often have my laptop with me, but when I am near home I most often an out with a much smaller device (Treo).  My laptop is my portable office, but my Treo is my personal communication device. Increasingly, there are many occasions where I have both. As I am moving back into serious project work, my laptop is increasingly with me (but it is also my desktop - for now).</p>
<p>The rudeness I think correlates to whom we are interacting.  If it is geek, the laptops are out and mobiles clicking.  If it is not geek, I am less inclined to do so.  But, I will pop out the laptop or mobile for a quick demo or to show an example. I also will pull out graph paper and illustrate.</p>
<p>This last trip in England I had meetings where my laptop stayed tucked away while discussing business, but also had social occasions where I found the bar had wifi and all the laptops popped out while we chatted multi-socially and drank beers.  I also had business meetings where all the parties had their laptops out taking notes (to ensure everything was captured) and quick references could be checked, even with no connectivity.</p>
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		<title>By: tobto  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Ñ?Ð¿Ñ–Ð»ÐºÑƒÐ²Ð°Ð½Ð½Ñ? Ñƒ Ñ?Ñ‚Ð¸Ð»Ñ– &#8216;Web2.0 Party&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-1299</link>
		<dc:creator>tobto  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Ñ?Ð¿Ñ–Ð»ÐºÑƒÐ²Ð°Ð½Ð½Ñ? Ñƒ Ñ?Ñ‚Ð¸Ð»Ñ– &#8216;Web2.0 Party&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-1299</guid>
		<description>[...] ?Ð¿Ñ–Ð»ÐºÑƒÐ²Ð°Ð½Ð½Ñ? Ñƒ Ñ?Ñ‚Ð¸Ð»Ñ– &#8216;Web2.0 Party&#8217; 	 			 				Ð”Ñ?ÐºÑƒÑŽÑ‡Ð¸ San Fransocial, Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÐ¼Ð¾ Ð´Ñ–Ð·Ð½Ð°Ñ‚Ð¸Ñ?ÑŒ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾ Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð¸Ð¹ Ñ‚Ð¸Ð¿ Ñ?Ð¿Ñ–Ð»ÐºÑƒÐ²Ð°Ð½ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ?Ð¿Ñ–Ð»ÐºÑƒÐ²Ð°Ð½Ð½Ñ? Ñƒ Ñ?Ñ‚Ð¸Ð»Ñ– &#8216;Web2.0 Party&#8217;</p>
<p> 				Ð”Ñ?ÐºÑƒÑŽÑ‡Ð¸ San Fransocial, Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÐ¼Ð¾ Ð´Ñ–Ð·Ð½Ð°Ñ‚Ð¸Ñ?ÑŒ Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾ Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð¸Ð¹ Ñ‚Ð¸Ð¿ Ñ?Ð¿Ñ–Ð»ÐºÑƒÐ²Ð°Ð½ [...]</p>
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		<title>By: FactoryJoe</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-1295</link>
		<dc:creator>FactoryJoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-1295</guid>
		<description>Adam, I think your points are also valid and well-taken. I typically consider myself a luddite even though when I say that, people usually look at my cock-eyed. 

But it's true -- there's absolutely something sacred in having one-to-one or one-to-few conversations. And I think that those conversations actually happen &lt;strong&gt;more often&lt;/strong&gt; in the context of San Fransocializing.

Let me propose a clarification. It seems to me that the traditional view of geeks pegs them as smelly, socially inept dweebs, locked up in their bedrooms or basements and trolling IRC. I'm sure that actually was the reality for some time. But this new generation of geeks, hey, we &lt;em&gt;like&lt;/em&gt; being social and being out around our friends and other people. But we also like to use our gadgets and stay connected to people who aren't physically present.

You mentioned the backchannel as a distraction -- and that if a speaker is no good, well, get up and leave. I heard this argument before and it doesn't real hold muster. I mean, consider Les Blogs. People &lt;strong&gt;paid&lt;/strong&gt; for that conference. A number of the panels were basic and not terribly challenging. Yet the backchannel discourse was humourous, engaging and personal. When there wasn't enough intellectual fodder being tossed around on stage, we made up for it in the backchannel. Did it get out of hand? Anh, I dunno, we were thinking those thoughts anyway. And I just don't follow the rule that "If you've got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." We don't have our vaunted Freedom of Speech for nothing.

But ok ok, so I alluded to the last point I want to make about this: more than ever, we're able to be inclusive and rope in folks who otherwise wouldn't be able to participate in conversations and dialogues that once were the mores of the wealthy, the elite, the sophisticated. We're overrunning those channels with amateurs, uncooth debutantes with all the ego of a Mac truck. And sorry, but we're not going away.

Maybe, as Mena was suggesting, we need to teach politeness in kindergarten again. I'd be for that. Kids are learning to swear before they're potty-trained and something seems off about that. I mean, it's just language, but hey, let's clean up our behavior offline before we impose the manner-police on the web. At least online you can close your browser, kill IRC, junk and email or shut the damn box off. In real life, hey, you really don't have so much control over your social environment. Get what I mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, I think your points are also valid and well-taken. I typically consider myself a luddite even though when I say that, people usually look at my cock-eyed. </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s true &#8212; there&#8217;s absolutely something sacred in having one-to-one or one-to-few conversations. And I think that those conversations actually happen <strong>more often</strong> in the context of San Fransocializing.</p>
<p>Let me propose a clarification. It seems to me that the traditional view of geeks pegs them as smelly, socially inept dweebs, locked up in their bedrooms or basements and trolling IRC. I&#8217;m sure that actually was the reality for some time. But this new generation of geeks, hey, we <em>like</em> being social and being out around our friends and other people. But we also like to use our gadgets and stay connected to people who aren&#8217;t physically present.</p>
<p>You mentioned the backchannel as a distraction &#8212; and that if a speaker is no good, well, get up and leave. I heard this argument before and it doesn&#8217;t real hold muster. I mean, consider Les Blogs. People <strong>paid</strong> for that conference. A number of the panels were basic and not terribly challenging. Yet the backchannel discourse was humourous, engaging and personal. When there wasn&#8217;t enough intellectual fodder being tossed around on stage, we made up for it in the backchannel. Did it get out of hand? Anh, I dunno, we were thinking those thoughts anyway. And I just don&#8217;t follow the rule that &#8220;If you&#8217;ve got nothing nice to say, don&#8217;t say anything at all.&#8221; We don&#8217;t have our vaunted Freedom of Speech for nothing.</p>
<p>But ok ok, so I alluded to the last point I want to make about this: more than ever, we&#8217;re able to be inclusive and rope in folks who otherwise wouldn&#8217;t be able to participate in conversations and dialogues that once were the mores of the wealthy, the elite, the sophisticated. We&#8217;re overrunning those channels with amateurs, uncooth debutantes with all the ego of a Mac truck. And sorry, but we&#8217;re not going away.</p>
<p>Maybe, as Mena was suggesting, we need to teach politeness in kindergarten again. I&#8217;d be for that. Kids are learning to swear before they&#8217;re potty-trained and something seems off about that. I mean, it&#8217;s just language, but hey, let&#8217;s clean up our behavior offline before we impose the manner-police on the web. At least online you can close your browser, kill IRC, junk and email or shut the damn box off. In real life, hey, you really don&#8217;t have so much control over your social environment. Get what I mean?</p>
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		<title>By: San Franantisocial   at  FactoryCity</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-1292</link>
		<dc:creator>San Franantisocial   at  FactoryCity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-1292</guid>
		<description>[...] ial, sfo.											 				 	 				 												So there has to be an equal complement to San Fransocialhttp://www.factoryjoe.com/blog/wp-admin/post.php. And obviously, it's San Fr [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ial, sfo.											</p>
<p> 												So there has to be an equal complement to San Fransocialhttp://www.factoryjoe.com/blog/wp-admin/post.php. And obviously, it&#8217;s San Fr [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/comment-page-1/#comment-1286</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2005/12/06/san-fransocial/#comment-1286</guid>
		<description>&#62; when meeting others they may find it rude or anti-social â€“
&#62; most people like being listened to more than they like 
&#62; talking.

While I'm a total geek, I count myself among those "others" who finds it both rude and distressing to see people multitasking when I'm communicating with them... or attempting to communicate.

When you're in my home or having coffee with me, you damn well better turn OFF the flippin' phone (or at least put it on vibrate), and turn OFF the laptop, unless we're looking at pictures or listening to music TOGETHER.

And even then, frankly, I'd rather drink a cup of coffee with you and CHAT.

And by chat, I mean in person.  Looking into each others' eyes.  Maybe putting a hand on each others' shoulders for emphasis.  And concentrating on each other (or, if in a group, on the group) 100%.

Hey, look, I use Trillian.  I used to use IRC a bunch.  I like e-mail.  I've used Skype.  And yes, I'll admit that -- somewhat hypocritically -- I've gone to meetings on occasion and spent time checking my e-mail.

But still, there's something sacred and IMPORTANT about in-person communications, IMHO, that demand one's full attention.

And yes, this means I also abhor the 'backchannel' at conferences.  Taking notes... that's fine.  But chatting with others to deride or "augment" the speaker?  That's crappy.

Boring speaker?  Leave the room or hire a different speaker.  If a speaker is boring enough, often enough, hopefully they won't be asked back.

Maybe, at 34 years old, I'm just an aging old luddite... but I do tech stuff full time for a living.  I like geekery.  I just wish that -- once it helped bring people together -- that people would actually ENJOY that time with others they're literally faced with and not feel compelled to be multitasking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; when meeting others they may find it rude or anti-social â€“<br />
&gt; most people like being listened to more than they like<br />
&gt; talking.</p>
<p>While I&#8217;m a total geek, I count myself among those &#8220;others&#8221; who finds it both rude and distressing to see people multitasking when I&#8217;m communicating with them&#8230; or attempting to communicate.</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re in my home or having coffee with me, you damn well better turn OFF the flippin&#8217; phone (or at least put it on vibrate), and turn OFF the laptop, unless we&#8217;re looking at pictures or listening to music TOGETHER.</p>
<p>And even then, frankly, I&#8217;d rather drink a cup of coffee with you and CHAT.</p>
<p>And by chat, I mean in person.  Looking into each others&#8217; eyes.  Maybe putting a hand on each others&#8217; shoulders for emphasis.  And concentrating on each other (or, if in a group, on the group) 100%.</p>
<p>Hey, look, I use Trillian.  I used to use IRC a bunch.  I like e-mail.  I&#8217;ve used Skype.  And yes, I&#8217;ll admit that &#8212; somewhat hypocritically &#8212; I&#8217;ve gone to meetings on occasion and spent time checking my e-mail.</p>
<p>But still, there&#8217;s something sacred and IMPORTANT about in-person communications, IMHO, that demand one&#8217;s full attention.</p>
<p>And yes, this means I also abhor the &#8216;backchannel&#8217; at conferences.  Taking notes&#8230; that&#8217;s fine.  But chatting with others to deride or &#8220;augment&#8221; the speaker?  That&#8217;s crappy.</p>
<p>Boring speaker?  Leave the room or hire a different speaker.  If a speaker is boring enough, often enough, hopefully they won&#8217;t be asked back.</p>
<p>Maybe, at 34 years old, I&#8217;m just an aging old luddite&#8230; but I do tech stuff full time for a living.  I like geekery.  I just wish that &#8212; once it helped bring people together &#8212; that people would actually ENJOY that time with others they&#8217;re literally faced with and not feel compelled to be multitasking.</p>
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