Comments on: And you wonder why people in America are afraid of the Internet http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/ This can all be made better. Ready? Begin. Mon, 16 Apr 2012 18:32:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Adina Levin http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-96281 Adina Levin Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:45:34 +0000 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/#comment-96281 @Chris. "We know (or at least should presume) that AT&T is colluding with the government and sharing sensitive cell phone records without any kind of public oversight." That's why the FISA bill and telecom immunity are such big deals. This summer, congress passed a temporary law that allows the government to snoop on correspondence without warrants. Now, Congress is considering updating the law. There are live issues about when the government needs warrants, and whether to give telecom companies immunity from prosecution if they break the law and gave the government information without a warrant. The <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com" rel="nofollow">Talking Points Memo</a> blog covers the issue well, for example: http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/10/fisa_bill_already_allowed_unfettered_evesdropping_to_prevent_terror_attack_dems_say.php @Chris. “We know (or at least should presume) that AT&T is colluding with the government and sharing sensitive cell phone records without any kind of public oversight.”

That’s why the FISA bill and telecom immunity are such big deals. This summer, congress passed a temporary law that allows the government to snoop on correspondence without warrants. Now, Congress is considering updating the law. There are live issues about when the government needs warrants, and whether to give telecom companies immunity from prosecution if they break the law and gave the government information without a warrant. The Talking Points Memo blog covers the issue well, for example:

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/10/fisa_bill_already_allowed_unfettered_evesdropping_to_prevent_terror_attack_dems_say.php

]]> By: Chris Messina http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-96278 Chris Messina Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:10:31 +0000 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/#comment-96278 @Allen: great point. I think what you're describing is exactly what I'm afraid is already the reality. We know (or at least should presume) that AT&T is colluding with the government and sharing sensitive cell phone records without any kind of public oversight. We know that Yahoo! has given away the details of users' accounts in China, resulting the in the jailing of a reporter and Chinese dissident; an AOL employee stole a huge number of accounts.. and on and on. We can only assume that these are just the tip of the ice berg and it's only going to get worse. Even with stepped up oversight and enforcement, the reality is that more and more information is being generated and stored about us every time we transact digital business with anyone. This isn't paranoia speaking -- I'm not afraid of it -- it's just reality. Now, you make a good point. Not all this data being accumulated is being made public. Not all of this data is available for just anyone to use. But the reality is, the small number of organizations who *do* have access to it have enormous power and understanding of our habits and behavior. Personally, I'd feel better if I knew what data they had and who they were making it available to. I'd also like to, heck, y'know, be able to export it and use it for my own personal benefit since, arguably, it is *my* data. Without me, it wouldn't exist, would it? @Allen: great point. I think what you’re describing is exactly what I’m afraid is already the reality. We know (or at least should presume) that AT&T is colluding with the government and sharing sensitive cell phone records without any kind of public oversight. We know that Yahoo! has given away the details of users’ accounts in China, resulting the in the jailing of a reporter and Chinese dissident; an AOL employee stole a huge number of accounts.. and on and on. We can only assume that these are just the tip of the ice berg and it’s only going to get worse. Even with stepped up oversight and enforcement, the reality is that more and more information is being generated and stored about us every time we transact digital business with anyone. This isn’t paranoia speaking — I’m not afraid of it — it’s just reality.

Now, you make a good point. Not all this data being accumulated is being made public. Not all of this data is available for just anyone to use. But the reality is, the small number of organizations who *do* have access to it have enormous power and understanding of our habits and behavior.

Personally, I’d feel better if I knew what data they had and who they were making it available to. I’d also like to, heck, y’know, be able to export it and use it for my own personal benefit since, arguably, it is *my* data. Without me, it wouldn’t exist, would it?

]]> By: Pascal Van Hecke - Daily Links » 2007 » October » 24 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-96241 Pascal Van Hecke - Daily Links » 2007 » October » 24 Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:58:06 +0000 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/#comment-96241 [...] And you wonder why people in America are afraid of the Internet “If you’re using a cell phone, the cell phone company knows where you are. It’s just a matter of time before you get an interface to that data and the illusion that somehow you gave Google (or any other 3d party) access to your whereabouts.” (tags: chrismessina jaiku google privacy nytimes nyt mobile journalism) [...] [...] And you wonder why people in America are afraid of the Internet “If you’re using a cell phone, the cell phone company knows where you are. It’s just a matter of time before you get an interface to that data and the illusion that somehow you gave Google (or any other 3d party) access to your whereabouts.” (tags: chrismessina jaiku google privacy nytimes nyt mobile journalism) [...]

]]> By: Allen Laudenslager http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-96236 Allen Laudenslager Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:44:18 +0000 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/#comment-96236 Chris: I take exception to your use of the word “illusion” when talking about privacy. I know my cell provider knows where I am, but I rely on them not to release that to third parties - including governments. I need the assurance that I and I alone can authorize who get that information. If for no other reason than the thieves won’t know when I am away from home so they can break in safely. That assurance is only an illusion if the cell company is already releasing that information to third parties without my permission. Allen Chris:

I take exception to your use of the word “illusion” when talking about privacy. I know my cell provider knows where I am, but I rely on them not to release that to third parties – including governments. I need the assurance that I and I alone can authorize who get that information. If for no other reason than the thieves won’t know when I am away from home so they can break in safely.

That assurance is only an illusion if the cell company is already releasing that information to third parties without my permission.

Allen

]]> By: Vero Pepperrell http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-96213 Vero Pepperrell Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:26:37 +0000 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/#comment-96213 Wow, journalists who take this sensationalist approach to sell more papers make my blood boil. Using your quote, but changing the frame of reference as Ekman felt was his right to do, is a definite sign of a cheap-shot lazy journalist. Wow, journalists who take this sensationalist approach to sell more papers make my blood boil.

Using your quote, but changing the frame of reference as Ekman felt was his right to do, is a definite sign of a cheap-shot lazy journalist.

]]> By: A Barley Hut Joint » The Dog Who Claimed to be a Turtle http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-96211 A Barley Hut Joint » The Dog Who Claimed to be a Turtle Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:30:27 +0000 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/#comment-96211 [...] Chris Messina points what I’ve long considered a fundamental flaw in the News Industry. It’s subjective. This wouldn’t be a problem except for the fact the game is based on everyone believing the News Industry presents an objective lens through which to view the world. They’re not. Chris gives his example to explain a slightly different point, but his example is not much different than the one I gave in my post “Pick Your Own Adventure Media.” Suppose some may protest that these folks are professional, and trained to be objective. It’s bullshit. They’re trained, and professional, but not to be objective. That’s kinda like training a dog to be a turtle. It ain’t gonna happen. The News Industry doesn’t so much report the news as they shape the news, or frame the news, to use a word currently in vogue. The News Industry define perspective and focus awareness. Again, this wouldn’t be such a problem if everyone simply said we’re biased, but they don’t, and it’s a shame because their power to mold opinions and create problems is immense. I see it as an issue of integrity, or a lack of it. [...] [...] Chris Messina points what I’ve long considered a fundamental flaw in the News Industry. It’s subjective. This wouldn’t be a problem except for the fact the game is based on everyone believing the News Industry presents an objective lens through which to view the world. They’re not. Chris gives his example to explain a slightly different point, but his example is not much different than the one I gave in my post “Pick Your Own Adventure Media.” Suppose some may protest that these folks are professional, and trained to be objective. It’s bullshit. They’re trained, and professional, but not to be objective. That’s kinda like training a dog to be a turtle. It ain’t gonna happen. The News Industry doesn’t so much report the news as they shape the news, or frame the news, to use a word currently in vogue. The News Industry define perspective and focus awareness. Again, this wouldn’t be such a problem if everyone simply said we’re biased, but they don’t, and it’s a shame because their power to mold opinions and create problems is immense. I see it as an issue of integrity, or a lack of it. [...]

]]> By: SlashChick http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-96210 SlashChick Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:02:21 +0000 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/#comment-96210 More posts on the corruption of the tech industry plz. I will post a similar blog on how I've watched Silicon Valley change over the past 8 years that I've been here, but I'm interested to read what you see as well. -Erica More posts on the corruption of the tech industry plz. I will post a similar blog on how I’ve watched Silicon Valley change over the past 8 years that I’ve been here, but I’m interested to read what you see as well.

-Erica

]]> By: Perry de Havilland http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/comment-page-1/#comment-96208 Perry de Havilland Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:17:27 +0000 http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2007/10/21/and-you-wonder-why-people-in-america-are-afraid-of-the-internet/#comment-96208 The issue is not simply 'privacy' but rather privacy from whom? If I use a mobile phone, I realise the provider will know where I am and I really do not care. It is having the *state* get casual access to that information that bothers me. I really do not care if Google, Marks & Spencer, Orange or Mr. Patel at the Corner Shop knows where I am. I care very much if the government does. The issue is not simply ‘privacy’ but rather privacy from whom? If I use a mobile phone, I realise the provider will know where I am and I really do not care. It is having the *state* get casual access to that information that bothers me. I really do not care if Google, Marks & Spencer, Orange or Mr. Patel at the Corner Shop knows where I am. I care very much if the government does.

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