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	<title>Comments on: Machine tagging relationships</title>
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	<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/</link>
	<description>This can all be made better. Ready? Begin.</description>
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		<title>By: Aaron Straup Cope</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99494</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Straup Cope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99494</guid>
		<description>We chose not to use fully qualified URLs for namespaces because they are, at worst, weird and scary and confusing and, at best, hard to type.

The goal with machine tags was to offer just enough syntax to let people better structure -- and search -- their tags without sacrificing the ease of plain-old tagging itself.

Our experience has been that if people really need to disambiguate their namespaces they add an extra &quot;xmlns:$NS=$URL&quot; machine tag to their photos. This has been the case so far with institutions participating in the Commons, anyway.

(Tangentially related is Eliot Kimbel&#039;s wonderful, albeit nerd-irific, post titled &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://drmacros-xml-rants.blogspot.com/2006/02/i-was-wrong-sort-of-about-namespaces.html#links&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I was wrong (sort of) about namespaces&lt;/a&gt;&quot;.)

Finally, to answer the question about service:* or *:service I will only say that I use the former since the search API allows me to query for &quot;*:event=&quot; or &quot;*:user=&quot; which returns results across multiple services, say upcoming and lastfm, in one go.

Likewise, &quot;aero:*&quot; allows me to investigate only those properties belonging to a single namespace (planespotters in this case).

But there are no rules. Like tagging, the hope is that the various communities will arrive at and adapt a consensus according to their needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We chose not to use fully qualified URLs for namespaces because they are, at worst, weird and scary and confusing and, at best, hard to type.</p>
<p>The goal with machine tags was to offer just enough syntax to let people better structure &#8212; and search &#8212; their tags without sacrificing the ease of plain-old tagging itself.</p>
<p>Our experience has been that if people really need to disambiguate their namespaces they add an extra &#8220;xmlns:$NS=$URL&#8221; machine tag to their photos. This has been the case so far with institutions participating in the Commons, anyway.</p>
<p>(Tangentially related is Eliot Kimbel&#8217;s wonderful, albeit nerd-irific, post titled &#8220;<a href="http://drmacros-xml-rants.blogspot.com/2006/02/i-was-wrong-sort-of-about-namespaces.html#links" rel="nofollow">I was wrong (sort of) about namespaces</a>&#8220;.)</p>
<p>Finally, to answer the question about service:* or *:service I will only say that I use the former since the search API allows me to query for &#8220;*:event=&#8221; or &#8220;*:user=&#8221; which returns results across multiple services, say upcoming and lastfm, in one go.</p>
<p>Likewise, &#8220;aero:*&#8221; allows me to investigate only those properties belonging to a single namespace (planespotters in this case).</p>
<p>But there are no rules. Like tagging, the hope is that the various communities will arrive at and adapt a consensus according to their needs.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-06-05 &#171; Derivadow.com</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99316</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-06-05 &#171; Derivadow.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99316</guid>
		<description>[...] Machine tagging relationships [FactoryCity] An interesting idea - but I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s helpful - in the abstract sure it&#8217;s a good idea but does it help solve any real world problems? I don&#8217;t know, none that I have. (tags: dataportability identity socialgraph) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Machine tagging relationships [FactoryCity] An interesting idea &#8211; but I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s helpful &#8211; in the abstract sure it&#8217;s a good idea but does it help solve any real world problems? I don&#8217;t know, none that I have. (tags: dataportability identity socialgraph) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Max Design - standards based web design, development and training &#187; Some links for light reading (28/5/08)</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99201</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Design - standards based web design, development and training &#187; Some links for light reading (28/5/08)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 17:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99201</guid>
		<description>[...] Machine tagging relationships [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Machine tagging relationships [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Messina</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99189</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Messina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 21:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99189</guid>
		<description>@Lachlan: exactly. Especially if you&#039;re just a service built on top of, say, a collection of photo-sharing services, having a uniform relationship model might greatly reduce your overhead and having to reinvent established protocols. 

It&#039;s also a way of dumping one file with ALL my relationships from EVERY social network between services and allowing for my relationships (to identities that have been consolidated) to move in one fell swoop. Rather than having to ask each individual service what the relationship is, I can be authoritative about the relationship I have to my contacts.

@Terrell: Good question. I&#039;ll have to circle back to the machine tag originators, but I think it just becomes a competition for the authoritative namespace. Of course using the fully-specified domain might prevent some confusion, ultimately it&#039;s just like using tags on social networking sites (i.e. &#039;development&#039; has many different verticals). I don&#039;t see much value in trying to co-opt a given namespace... I mean, so what if it&#039;s a flickr.org namespace? Comparing a &quot;flickr.org friend&quot; to a &quot;flickr.com fiend&quot; seems like a losing proposition. Still, I&#039;ll ask around and see what the CW is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lachlan: exactly. Especially if you&#8217;re just a service built on top of, say, a collection of photo-sharing services, having a uniform relationship model might greatly reduce your overhead and having to reinvent established protocols. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also a way of dumping one file with ALL my relationships from EVERY social network between services and allowing for my relationships (to identities that have been consolidated) to move in one fell swoop. Rather than having to ask each individual service what the relationship is, I can be authoritative about the relationship I have to my contacts.</p>
<p>@Terrell: Good question. I&#8217;ll have to circle back to the machine tag originators, but I think it just becomes a competition for the authoritative namespace. Of course using the fully-specified domain might prevent some confusion, ultimately it&#8217;s just like using tags on social networking sites (i.e. &#8216;development&#8217; has many different verticals). I don&#8217;t see much value in trying to co-opt a given namespace&#8230; I mean, so what if it&#8217;s a flickr.org namespace? Comparing a &#8220;flickr.org friend&#8221; to a &#8220;flickr.com fiend&#8221; seems like a losing proposition. Still, I&#8217;ll ask around and see what the CW is.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-05-26 &#171; Breyten&#8217;s Dev Blog</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99184</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-05-26 &#171; Breyten&#8217;s Dev Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 11:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99184</guid>
		<description>[...] Machine tagging relationships (tags: citizen-centric web digital identity microformats technology building diso foaf machine tags portable contacts relationships xfn) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Machine tagging relationships (tags: citizen-centric web digital identity microformats technology building diso foaf machine tags portable contacts relationships xfn) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: http://terrellrussell.com/</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99182</link>
		<dc:creator>http://terrellrussell.com/</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 09:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99182</guid>
		<description>And what does a flickr.org or twitter.net do?  How can we justify not using fully qualified domain names?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what does a flickr.org or twitter.net do?  How can we justify not using fully qualified domain names?</p>
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		<title>By: Lachlan Hardy</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99180</link>
		<dc:creator>Lachlan Hardy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 02:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99180</guid>
		<description>Very interesting idea, Chris. The real benefit I see is the ability to port and re-use an existing model from a third-party site. In the same way Ma.gnolia now effectively out-sources its identity verification to third-party sites, a site could out-source its entire relationship structure. 

It&#039;s not that my site might not want to create our own relationship model, but being able to use one from somewhere else that stays current would sure cut out a lot of friction!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting idea, Chris. The real benefit I see is the ability to port and re-use an existing model from a third-party site. In the same way Ma.gnolia now effectively out-sources its identity verification to third-party sites, a site could out-source its entire relationship structure. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that my site might not want to create our own relationship model, but being able to use one from somewhere else that stays current would sure cut out a lot of friction!</p>
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		<title>By: Mariana</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99177</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 00:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99177</guid>
		<description>@Don  Perhaps it’s just a temporary-adaptation process but I think that, more than the plataform /brand is the game language used in each software what do shape -until certain (perhaps light but real) degree- the relationships sustained there.

Feel the mixing of languages expand the richness of contacts in a fast increasing way. So as languages, relationships are changing in a very high speed, so it can become tedious to re-tag and re set the access permissions under regular basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Don  Perhaps it’s just a temporary-adaptation process but I think that, more than the plataform /brand is the game language used in each software what do shape -until certain (perhaps light but real) degree- the relationships sustained there.</p>
<p>Feel the mixing of languages expand the richness of contacts in a fast increasing way. So as languages, relationships are changing in a very high speed, so it can become tedious to re-tag and re set the access permissions under regular basis.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Park</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99176</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 00:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99176</guid>
		<description>my first impression is that the origin of the service is already encoded in the href URL. dopplr.com/me already says the service is dopplr, but there isn&#039;t a standard way to extract that information since formats like me.jaiku.com or last.fm/users/me are also popular.

using &#039;machine tags&#039; in XFN seems to have lots of potential. the data providers can maintain backwards compatibility since rel=&quot;friend&quot; can co-exist with twitter:rel=&quot;friend&quot;.

will a service name come to mean a style of friendship? like xerox has come to mean photocopying, will a competing microblogging platform add xfn tags of twitter:rel=&quot;friend&quot; because its a twitter-style relationship rather than an actual twitter friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my first impression is that the origin of the service is already encoded in the href URL. dopplr.com/me already says the service is dopplr, but there isn&#8217;t a standard way to extract that information since formats like me.jaiku.com or last.fm/users/me are also popular.</p>
<p>using &#8216;machine tags&#8217; in XFN seems to have lots of potential. the data providers can maintain backwards compatibility since rel=&#8221;friend&#8221; can co-exist with twitter:rel=&#8221;friend&#8221;.</p>
<p>will a service name come to mean a style of friendship? like xerox has come to mean photocopying, will a competing microblogging platform add xfn tags of twitter:rel=&#8221;friend&#8221; because its a twitter-style relationship rather than an actual twitter friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Messina</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/05/25/machine-tagging-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-99175</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Messina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 00:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=954#comment-99175</guid>
		<description>@Eran, the other aspect is that machine tags can be useful for other pairings, such as twitter:user=factoryjoe or twitter:status=123456. Given that Flickr already uses this convention, as Steve described, means that we&#039;re not doing simple name:value pairs, but using something that has already gained some traction...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eran, the other aspect is that machine tags can be useful for other pairings, such as twitter:user=factoryjoe or twitter:status=123456. Given that Flickr already uses this convention, as Steve described, means that we&#8217;re not doing simple name:value pairs, but using something that has already gained some traction&#8230;</p>
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