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	<title>Comments on: Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/</link>
	<description>This can all be made better. Ready? Begin.</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99781</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99781</guid>
		<description>The thing is, vcard is a pretty hopeless starting point. There&#039;s so much ambiguity in the spec and so much that it just doesn&#039;t model properly that every application has to invent its own mechanism for representing its internal schema using vcard. As a result success rates moving contacts between applications using vcard are pretty low in my experience. I think the multiple schemas you&#039;re seeing are a response to the vacuum that vcard has created by giving the impression of being a workable standard without actually being capable of solving the problems.

To give some concrete examples,
* The usual user-visible phone number and email address types (home, work, mobile, etc) aren&#039;t mapped onto vcard type values in a standard way.
* The various parts of the ADR field are not standardised and don&#039;t accurately capture international addresses. The *order* that the parts should be displayed in isn&#039;t even consistent across applications.
* There&#039;s no agreement about how to represent the contact data for an organization (as distinct to an individual).

I mean, just have a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/vcard-implementations

The last time I looked at this stuff I came away amazed that any non-technical users manage to have any kind of success with this kind of thing. I was trying to write a script to merge together the contacts from my Series 60 Nokia phone, Evolution on Linux, Outlook and GMail, all exported in vcard format, and finished up with a fat ball of heuristics that probably only worked for the few hundred cards I was working with.

vcard is probably fine if you define the 80% use-case as &#039;extract a list of email addresses we can spam&#039;, but as the basis for an API it falls well short.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, vcard is a pretty hopeless starting point. There&#8217;s so much ambiguity in the spec and so much that it just doesn&#8217;t model properly that every application has to invent its own mechanism for representing its internal schema using vcard. As a result success rates moving contacts between applications using vcard are pretty low in my experience. I think the multiple schemas you&#8217;re seeing are a response to the vacuum that vcard has created by giving the impression of being a workable standard without actually being capable of solving the problems.</p>
<p>To give some concrete examples,<br />
* The usual user-visible phone number and email address types (home, work, mobile, etc) aren&#8217;t mapped onto vcard type values in a standard way.<br />
* The various parts of the ADR field are not standardised and don&#8217;t accurately capture international addresses. The *order* that the parts should be displayed in isn&#8217;t even consistent across applications.<br />
* There&#8217;s no agreement about how to represent the contact data for an organization (as distinct to an individual).</p>
<p>I mean, just have a look at <a href="http://microformats.org/wiki/vcard-implementations" rel="nofollow">http://microformats.org/wiki/vcard-implementations</a></p>
<p>The last time I looked at this stuff I came away amazed that any non-technical users manage to have any kind of success with this kind of thing. I was trying to write a script to merge together the contacts from my Series 60 Nokia phone, Evolution on Linux, Outlook and GMail, all exported in vcard format, and finished up with a fat ball of heuristics that probably only worked for the few hundred cards I was working with.</p>
<p>vcard is probably fine if you define the 80% use-case as &#8216;extract a list of email addresses we can spam&#8217;, but as the basis for an API it falls well short.</p>
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		<title>By: Dare Obasanjo aka Carnage4Life - Some Thoughts on Google Adopting OAuth for GData APIs</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99471</link>
		<dc:creator>Dare Obasanjo aka Carnage4Life - Some Thoughts on Google Adopting OAuth for GData APIs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99471</guid>
		<description>[...] service provider has invented a different proprietary protocol for doing the same task in his post Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh) where he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] service provider has invented a different proprietary protocol for doing the same task in his post Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh) where he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nodalities &#187; Blog Archive &#187; This Week&#8217;s Semantic Web</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99431</link>
		<dc:creator>Nodalities &#187; Blog Archive &#187; This Week&#8217;s Semantic Web</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99431</guid>
		<description>[...] Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Earle Martin</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99422</link>
		<dc:creator>Earle Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99422</guid>
		<description>You should also include &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/contact&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the W3C&#039;s Contact schema&lt;/a&gt;, which has been around for almost eight years and is used in swathes of Semantic Web data. Following on from work by Norm Walsh, they also have some notes on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;modelling vCards in RDF&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should also include <a href="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/contact" rel="nofollow">the W3C&#8217;s Contact schema</a>, which has been around for almost eight years and is used in swathes of Semantic Web data. Following on from work by Norm Walsh, they also have some notes on <a href="http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns" rel="nofollow">modelling vCards in RDF</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Contact Mapping Schema &#171; Social Interaction</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99376</link>
		<dc:creator>Contact Mapping Schema &#171; Social Interaction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99376</guid>
		<description>[...] 13, 2008   So after reading an informative post on Chris Messina&#8217;s blog I think I am going to put together an xml based mapping for the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 13, 2008   So after reading an informative post on Chris Messina&#8217;s blog I think I am going to put together an xml based mapping for the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On Message with Ben Gross &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Link roundup for 6/13/08</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99374</link>
		<dc:creator>On Message with Ben Gross &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Link roundup for 6/13/08</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99374</guid>
		<description>[...] Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh): Chris Messina writes about the potential benefits that the recently released contact APIs from Microsoft, Google, and now Yahoo! as well as the problems caused by the proliferation of new contact schemas. Messina argues that the schemas should be standardized where possible using an existing standard such as vCard. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh): Chris Messina writes about the potential benefits that the recently released contact APIs from Microsoft, Google, and now Yahoo! as well as the problems caused by the proliferation of new contact schemas. Messina argues that the schemas should be standardized where possible using an existing standard such as vCard. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Hafichuk</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99367</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Hafichuk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99367</guid>
		<description>@joseph:

Any chance that you&#039;d be able to open-source the code so we don&#039;t all have to pay the &quot;tax&quot;? :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@joseph:</p>
<p>Any chance that you&#8217;d be able to open-source the code so we don&#8217;t all have to pay the &#8220;tax&#8221;? <img src='http://factoryjoe.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: zooper</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99337</link>
		<dc:creator>zooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99337</guid>
		<description>Well, this seems like a perfectly good place to propose which of the available formats are worth sitting down and evaluating.

Should we draw up needs or get suggestions for the best way forward using existing solutions (but prepared to shift if it is warranted)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, this seems like a perfectly good place to propose which of the available formats are worth sitting down and evaluating.</p>
<p>Should we draw up needs or get suggestions for the best way forward using existing solutions (but prepared to shift if it is warranted)</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99330</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99330</guid>
		<description>Hey Chris,

Nice breakdown!

I will have to work with all these APIs at some point soon as people using what I am building will likely span all services (though I only really use one).  

While I could simply focus on the initial service I am interested in and then write code for each of the next ones I think it makes sense to create a read/write facade so I only need to deal with one API.  

To keep it cross-platform and tool independent (most of my stuff is in C) I was thiking of creating a stylesheet with the physical implemention (how/when) of the transform left up to the developer.  I could use the structure offered by OpenSocial as a baseline...

Does this make sense?  Do you think this (the mapping stylesheet) would be something useful for the community?  If so once done I could release it out into the wild for others to use.

Cheers,

Christopher</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Chris,</p>
<p>Nice breakdown!</p>
<p>I will have to work with all these APIs at some point soon as people using what I am building will likely span all services (though I only really use one).  </p>
<p>While I could simply focus on the initial service I am interested in and then write code for each of the next ones I think it makes sense to create a read/write facade so I only need to deal with one API.  </p>
<p>To keep it cross-platform and tool independent (most of my stuff is in C) I was thiking of creating a stylesheet with the physical implemention (how/when) of the transform left up to the developer.  I could use the structure offered by OpenSocial as a baseline&#8230;</p>
<p>Does this make sense?  Do you think this (the mapping stylesheet) would be something useful for the community?  If so once done I could release it out into the wild for others to use.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Christopher</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-06-06 &#171; Breyten&#8217;s Dev Blog</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/06/04/inventing-contact-schemas-for-fun-and-profit-ugh/comment-page-1/#comment-99322</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-06-06 &#171; Breyten&#8217;s Dev Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=957#comment-99322</guid>
		<description>[...] Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh) (tags: citizen-centric web digital identity life online microformats technology building diso address book api bbauth opensocial portable contacts vcard windows live yahoo) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Inventing contact schemas for fun and profit! (Ugh) (tags: citizen-centric web digital identity life online microformats technology building diso address book api bbauth opensocial portable contacts vcard windows live yahoo) [...]</p>
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