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	<title>Comments on: Open-washing and the CamelOpenCircle &#8230;Jerk</title>
	<atom:link href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/</link>
	<description>This can all be made better. Ready? Begin.</description>
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		<title>By: henchan</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-107310</link>
		<dc:creator>henchan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 05:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-107310</guid>
		<description>Thin end of the wedge. First they&#039;ll borrow a term, then they&#039;ll appropriate it. 
See how we are now stuck with CamelCase to describe words like CamelOpenCircle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thin end of the wedge. First they&#8217;ll borrow a term, then they&#8217;ll appropriate it.<br />
See how we are now stuck with CamelCase to describe words like CamelOpenCircle.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Storck</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104123</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Storck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 03:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104123</guid>
		<description>At least organic is a USDA standard. So, if you call food organic, and it isn&#039;t, you are actually breaking the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least organic is a USDA standard. So, if you call food organic, and it isn&#8217;t, you are actually breaking the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Mason</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104119</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104119</guid>
		<description>&quot;It is estimated that the Nazis killed 20,946,000 people from 1933 to 1945 (R.J. Rummel, Democide: Nazi Genocide and Mass Murder, 1993.)

Guess how many people are killed by tobacco-related illnesses every year?

Roughly 20% of that number. Smoking and tobacco-related diseases cause on the order of 4.2 million premature deaths per year&quot;

The part you&#039;re missing is the people the Nazis killed had no choice in the matter. They were systematically being exterminated like insects.

Smoking on the other hand is (and this is the clincher) COMPLETELY OPTIONAL, not only optional but YOU HAVE TO PAY MONEY TO DO IT.

Some other points I&#039;d like to make are as follows:
1. What business is it of your&#039;s what other people do with their bodies as long as it doesn&#039;t harm you? (and don&#039;t retort with &quot;second hand smoke&quot;, its a bullshit claim to begin with and fairly moot with all the public anti-smoking laws in so many states and countries)
2. This one may take you a while to wrap your head around....NON-SMOKERS DIE EVERYDAY. Fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It is estimated that the Nazis killed 20,946,000 people from 1933 to 1945 (R.J. Rummel, Democide: Nazi Genocide and Mass Murder, 1993.)</p>
<p>Guess how many people are killed by tobacco-related illnesses every year?</p>
<p>Roughly 20% of that number. Smoking and tobacco-related diseases cause on the order of 4.2 million premature deaths per year&#8221;</p>
<p>The part you&#8217;re missing is the people the Nazis killed had no choice in the matter. They were systematically being exterminated like insects.</p>
<p>Smoking on the other hand is (and this is the clincher) COMPLETELY OPTIONAL, not only optional but YOU HAVE TO PAY MONEY TO DO IT.</p>
<p>Some other points I&#8217;d like to make are as follows:<br />
1. What business is it of your&#8217;s what other people do with their bodies as long as it doesn&#8217;t harm you? (and don&#8217;t retort with &#8220;second hand smoke&#8221;, its a bullshit claim to begin with and fairly moot with all the public anti-smoking laws in so many states and countries)<br />
2. This one may take you a while to wrap your head around&#8230;.NON-SMOKERS DIE EVERYDAY. Fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Bertil Hatt</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104086</link>
		<dc:creator>Bertil Hatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104086</guid>
		<description>I fully agree with you that tobacco companies and their advertizers should be treated like the drug lords that they are (Hang by the balls? Come on: ask Pr. Yoo from the prevous White House Legal Counsel, he&#039;ll make way worst completely lawful for you) and although I might also agree with Mike that one shouldn&#039;t get in the way of Darwin, and let one pay one more stupidity tax, as long as they don&#039;t do it in my public space. In spite of that, your rant relies on the fact that Open is something real, or well defined. I would like to disagree with that — actually, I&#039;ve spend the last month arguing (in the desert) that your very promissing attempts to make the world “more open, social and free” don&#039;t necessarily help.

Most initiative will lead us into a monopoly (most likely Facebook) a not very innovative one at that, and —what is worst— a hard to challenge. It is counter-intuitive, but I have enough experiments in the economics of communication services to argue my case.  Projects like OpenSocial that lower the cost to have accounts on several services, like Orkut, MySpace and more, will help a monopoly to be set up.  Data Portability will do the same, more efficiently. I know Dave Morin is a cool kid — almost as cool as ‘Joe’ (?) Camel&#039;s camel — but unless he argues for DiSo, he might as well be serving the same social-based dependendy mechanism that made smoking not only cool, but a necessary aspect to integration.

Don&#039;t tell me Facebook doesn&#039;t kill: Zuckerberg was the one who introduced that kind of element in the debate, mentionning how his company saved lifes but preventing bully regimes.  Actual understanding of how his company can became a monopoly is important too.

Please don&#039;t neglect my comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully agree with you that tobacco companies and their advertizers should be treated like the drug lords that they are (Hang by the balls? Come on: ask Pr. Yoo from the prevous White House Legal Counsel, he&#8217;ll make way worst completely lawful for you) and although I might also agree with Mike that one shouldn&#8217;t get in the way of Darwin, and let one pay one more stupidity tax, as long as they don&#8217;t do it in my public space. In spite of that, your rant relies on the fact that Open is something real, or well defined. I would like to disagree with that — actually, I&#8217;ve spend the last month arguing (in the desert) that your very promissing attempts to make the world “more open, social and free” don&#8217;t necessarily help.</p>
<p>Most initiative will lead us into a monopoly (most likely Facebook) a not very innovative one at that, and —what is worst— a hard to challenge. It is counter-intuitive, but I have enough experiments in the economics of communication services to argue my case.  Projects like OpenSocial that lower the cost to have accounts on several services, like Orkut, MySpace and more, will help a monopoly to be set up.  Data Portability will do the same, more efficiently. I know Dave Morin is a cool kid — almost as cool as ‘Joe’ (?) Camel&#8217;s camel — but unless he argues for DiSo, he might as well be serving the same social-based dependendy mechanism that made smoking not only cool, but a necessary aspect to integration.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t tell me Facebook doesn&#8217;t kill: Zuckerberg was the one who introduced that kind of element in the debate, mentionning how his company saved lifes but preventing bully regimes.  Actual understanding of how his company can became a monopoly is important too.</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t neglect my comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104085</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104085</guid>
		<description>1 - I hate the on going dilution of &quot;open&quot; more than anyone. This Camel example is bad, but at least they do not sit on the W3C board an intentionally destroy Open Source Standards ( Like Microsoft and Adobe do ).

Conversely...

Mr. Messina your strong anti-tobacco stance has seemingly forgotten that most states, especially California, would go bankrupt if they were to lose their &quot;sin tax&quot; revenue.

The trash in San Francisco gets taken away, the street lights work, clean water comes out of the tap in your house - all because of cigarettes.

I am in no way trying to defend the tobacco companies, but they are transparent in at least one way - they just want to make money at the expense ( death ) of their customers.

...Do the &quot;sin tax&quot; states, like California whose budgets are reliant on the revenue from cigarettes, show the same transparency? Do you aim the same amount of vitriol that&#039;s in the post at the state legislators in Sacramento? They are just as guilty as big tobacco companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1 &#8211; I hate the on going dilution of &#8220;open&#8221; more than anyone. This Camel example is bad, but at least they do not sit on the W3C board an intentionally destroy Open Source Standards ( Like Microsoft and Adobe do ).</p>
<p>Conversely&#8230;</p>
<p>Mr. Messina your strong anti-tobacco stance has seemingly forgotten that most states, especially California, would go bankrupt if they were to lose their &#8220;sin tax&#8221; revenue.</p>
<p>The trash in San Francisco gets taken away, the street lights work, clean water comes out of the tap in your house &#8211; all because of cigarettes.</p>
<p>I am in no way trying to defend the tobacco companies, but they are transparent in at least one way &#8211; they just want to make money at the expense ( death ) of their customers.</p>
<p>&#8230;Do the &#8220;sin tax&#8221; states, like California whose budgets are reliant on the revenue from cigarettes, show the same transparency? Do you aim the same amount of vitriol that&#8217;s in the post at the state legislators in Sacramento? They are just as guilty as big tobacco companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104083</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 02:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104083</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand the issue with smoking. As long as it isn&#039;t directly affecting my health, let smokers smoke.

Wouldn&#039;t you prefer that smokers die off anyways? The earth&#039;s population growth crisis is a far more critical issue to worry about. Smokers die, and the earth lives a bit longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand the issue with smoking. As long as it isn&#8217;t directly affecting my health, let smokers smoke.</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t you prefer that smokers die off anyways? The earth&#8217;s population growth crisis is a far more critical issue to worry about. Smokers die, and the earth lives a bit longer.</p>
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		<title>By: timb</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104082</link>
		<dc:creator>timb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104082</guid>
		<description>i wasn&#039;t really aware smoking was dangerous for my health. these hard facts really put things into perspective for me, thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i wasn&#8217;t really aware smoking was dangerous for my health. these hard facts really put things into perspective for me, thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: KentBye</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104081</link>
		<dc:creator>KentBye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104081</guid>
		<description>Boom! Roasted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boom! Roasted.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabricio Zuardi</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104080</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabricio Zuardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104080</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry Chris, the &quot;Generation Open&quot; smoke Smarties http://www.youtube.com/results?q=how%20to%20smoke%20smarties ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry Chris, the &#8220;Generation Open&#8221; smoke Smarties <a href="http://www.youtube.com/results?q=how%20to%20smoke%20smarties" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/results?q=how%20to%20smoke%20smarties</a> <img src='http://factoryjoe.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/03/20/open-washing-and-the-camelopencircle-jerk/comment-page-1/#comment-104079</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?p=1280#comment-104079</guid>
		<description>I appreciate your anger. We can also thank government officials who pilfered tobacco settlement monies that were earmarked specifically for programs to reduce tobacco use.  Instead they diverted them to plug budget shortfalls or other more politically expedient programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your anger. We can also thank government officials who pilfered tobacco settlement monies that were earmarked specifically for programs to reduce tobacco use.  Instead they diverted them to plug budget shortfalls or other more politically expedient programs.</p>
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